Namhlanje kudliwanondlebe olukhutshwe liSebe leSizwe laseMelika Unobhala u-Antony J. Blinken kunye no-Andrea Mitchell we-NBC Inqaku lengxoxo yayinguMongameli uVladimir Putin waseRashiya kunye nezicwangciso zakhe zemfazwe ezizayo kunye nombono we-Ukraine.
UMBUZO: Mnu.Nobhala, enkosi kakhulu ngokuba kunye nathi. Bendifuna ukukubuza ukuba kuqhubeka ntoni ngoku. Usihlalo weeNkosi eziManyeneyo uxelele iCongress ukuba oku kuya kuhlala iminyaka, le mfazwe. Imfazwe ethatha ixesha elide izakuthatha iminyaka, ngokokutsho kukasihlalo weeNkosi ezihlangeneyo. Ngaba ukuzibophelela okutsha kwanamhlanje kweJavelins, izixhobo ezichasene netanki e-Ukraine kuya kucutha ixesha lexesha?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: UAndrea, sifuna ukubona oku kufikelela esiphelweni ngokukhawuleza, kwaye yiyo loo nto kanye siqinisekisa ukuba senza konke esinako ukuxhasa iUkraine nokubanika uncedo abaludingayo ukuze babeke uxinzelelo kunye nokubanika uncedo. ukonyusa uxinzelelo eRussia, nanjengoko sisomeleza wethu-ukhuselo lweManyano yethu ye-NATO.
UMBUZO: Ke kuthekani ngeeJavelins?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ke iJavelins, sisandula ukwenza - uMongameli ugunyazise enye i-100 yezigidi zeedola kuluhlu oluya kubonelela ngeeJavelins ezininzi kumaqabane ethu ase-Ukraine. Beka oku ngokwembono: Phakathi kwe-United States kunye namanye amahlakani kunye namaqabane, kwitanki nganye yaseRashiya e-Ukraine, sinikeze okanye siza kubonelela ngokukhawuleza iinkqubo ezili-10 ezichasene netanki - i-10 kwitanki nganye yaseRashiya. Ngoko ngokubhekiselele kwizinto ezifunekayo ukuba benze ngokukhawuleza kwaye basebenze ngokufanelekileyo, ukujongana neenqwelomoya ezibadubulayo ukusuka esibhakabhakeni, iitanki ezizama ukutshabalalisa izixeko zabo emhlabeni, zinezixhobo ezizifunayo. 'Siza kuqhubeka sizifumana, kwaye siza kugcina oko.
Kodwa kwinqanaba likasihlalo, kwaye uMongameli wayithetha le nto, njengoko sifuna ukubona oku kufikelela esiphelweni ngokukhawuleza ukunqanda ukufa kunye nentshabalalo eyenziwa yiRussia eUkraine, kukwakho amathuba amaninzi. Imeko apho oku kuqhubeka ixesha elithile. AmaRashiya, nangona ehambisa imikhosi yawo, abuyele eKyiv, abuyele emantla nasentshona, ahlanganisa imikhosi empuma, eDonbas. Basenamandla amaninzi ashiyekileyo. Abantu baseUkraine banenye into eyomeleleyo ekugqibeleni, kwaye oko kukuzimisela okukrakra kunye nokuthanda ukukhusela ilizwe labo ngenkxaso yamazwe amaninzi kwihlabathi liphela.
UMBUZO: Ngaba banokuphumelela?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ke ekugqibeleni, ewe, kuba yintoni impumelelo, yintoni uloyiso? Ibambelele kulawulo nokuzimela kwelizwe layo. Kwaye akukho meko enokuthi ekuhambeni kwexesha oko kungenzeki. Ingxaki kukuba kungathatha ixesha, kwaye okwangoku, ukufa okukhulu kunye nentshabalalo. Kodwa yintoni enamandla apha kukuba abantu base-Ukrainian baye bacacisa ngokucacileyo ukuba abayi kuzithoba kwintando kaVladimir Putin.
UMBUZO: Kodwa kungakhathaliseki ukuba sibanika kangakanani, i-Ukraine inokuhlala njani ngokuchasene neRashiya ixesha elide ngaphandle kokuba i-US kunye namanye amazwe aqinisekisa imida yawo, ukhuseleko lwayo, njengoko uMongameli uZelenskyy efuna?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe, izinto zokuqala kuqala. Into yokuqala kukubona ukuba olu gonyamelo lweRashiya lufikelela esiphelweni, ukuba kukho ukupheliswa, ukuba iRashiya iyayirhoxisa imikhosi yayo, kwaye iUkraine igxininisa ulongamo kunye nokuzimela kwayo. Kodwa ke, ewe, kufuneka senze izinto ukuze siqinisekise ukuba, ngokusemandleni ethu kunye nokukwazi kwe-Ukraine, oku akunakuphinda kwenzeke, ukuba iRashiya iyanqandwa, ukuba i-Ukraine ikhuselwe. Sihlala sincokola no-
UMBUZO: Ngaba siyakuqinisekisa oko?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ngoko sine-
UMBUZO: Ngaba i-US iya kubandakanyeka ngakumbi?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Siba neencoko ezithe gqolo kunye namaqabane ethu aseUkraine kakhulu mihla le, kubandakanywa malunga nokuba yintoni esinokuyenza kunye nabanye kwimeko yothethathethwano oluyimpumelelo ukubakhusela kwaye sibancede bazikhusele ukuya phambili. Konke oku kungumxholo weencoko ngoku. Andiyi kuqhubela phambili, kodwa siya kwenza konke okusemandleni ethu, abanye baya kwenza konke okusemandleni abo ukuze baqinisekise ukuba i-Ukraine inokuzikhusela kwaye ithintele ukuhlaselwa okuphindaphindiweyo yiRashiya.
UMBUZO: Umongameli uPutin uthe ufuna ukuphinda enze iSoviet Union, uzuko lweSoviet Union. Ngala mabhongo, iUkraine ingaze ikhuseleke njani logama nje uPutin esemandleni?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe, izinto ezimbini: Okokuqala, ngokubhekiselele kwinto eyenziwa yiRashiya, into eyenziwa nguPutin e-Ukraine, le nto sele ibe yinkqubo yokubuyela umva, ukuba ayingokusilela. Kuba khumbula, Andrea, injongo uPutin wayibeka ngamazwi akhe yayikukuphelisa ulongamo kunye nokuzimela kwe-Ukraine. Uyibona njengelizwe elingakufanelanga ukuzimela, ekufuneka libuyiselwe kuhlobo oluthile lweRashiya enkulu. Ayenzeki loo nto, kungekuphela nje ukurhoxa eKyiv kodwa inyani yokuba nokuba uyidlala njani le nto abantu baseUkraine abayi kuzithoba kubuzwilakhe baseRussia.
UMBUZO: Udume kakhulu kunangaphambili ekhaya.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ngoko usenokuba ngoku uthandwa ngakumbi. Ewe kunjalo, ukuba ubusondliwa ngokutya okuzinzileyo, kusasa, emini, nasebusuku bepropaganda, ngelishwa abantu baseRussia, bathetha ngokuthandwa kwakhe. Kwangaxeshanye, xa abantu besabela kuvoto, basenokuba boyika gqitha ukunikela impendulo eyinyaniso. Ngoku kukho isigwebo solwaphulo-mthetho seminyaka eli-15 kuye nabani na ochasayo nangayiphi na indlela oko kubizwa ngokuba ngumsebenzi womkhosi okhethekileyo. Ngoko kufuneka uthathe oko ngengqolowa yetyuwa.
Emva kokuba ndiyithethile loo nto, ndicinga ukuba kukho ingxaki yokwenyani esisiseko, ekuthi amaRashiya akalufumani ulwazi oluyinyani abaludingayo ukuze bazenzele izigwebo, kwaye kungenxa yenkqubo uVladimir Putin ayenze yagqibelela apho olo lwazi lukhatywayo. bona.
UMBUZO: Umongameli uBiden ubize uPutin ngokuba sisilarha, isaphuli-mthetho semfazwe. Utshilo ukuba abantu abajongene nobugebenga baseBucha kunye nabo babayaleleyo baya kuphendula.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ilungile lo nto.
UMBUZO: Inokwenzeka njani loo nto ngaphandle kokuba uVladimir Putin emangale?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Okokuqala, u-Andrea, amavili okuphendula angakwazi ukuhamba ngokukhawuleza, kodwa ahamba, kwaye ngolunye usuku, ngandlela-thile, kwindawo ethile, abo benza ezi zenzo zolwaphulo-mthetho kunye nabo bayalela ubugwenxa baya kuphendula. Kodwa kuthatha ixesha, kwaye inxenye yoku kukwakha ityala, inxenye yale - nto siyenzayo kwaye abanye bayayenza. Icandelo – kukho umtshutshisi okhethekileyo waseUkraine osebenza kule nto. Siyayixhasa imizamo yakhe. Siye saseka kwiZizwe eziManyeneyo kwiBhunga lamaLungelo oLuntu iKomishoni yoPhando ejongana noku. Siyazixhasa ezo nzame, ukwakha ityala, ukufumana ubungqina, ukubhala. INkundla yoLwaphulo-mthetho yeZizwe ngezizwe nayo ijonge oku.
Kodwa konke oku kuya kudlala ngokuhamba kwexesha, kwaye kufuneka silakhe ityala, kufuneka sifumane ubungqina, kufuneka sibhale phantsi - siyayenza yonke loo nto. Ngaba yinyanga ezayo, kunyaka ozayo, kwiminyaka emihlanu? Kungathatha ixesha, kodwa ndiyacinga-ndiyakuqinisekisa ukuba kuya kubakho umzamo ongayekeleliyo wokuqinisekisa ukuba abo banoxanduva koko sikubonayo baya kuphendula. Kwaye into esiyibonayo, Andrea, ndicinga ngaphaya koko nabani na kuthi ebenokukulindela ngokupheleleyo. Sathi phambi kokuba iRussia yenze olu hlaselo ukuba kuya kubakho izenzo zenkohlakalo, ukuba yayiyinxalenye yabom yephulo labo. Kwaye nokwazi ukuba, xa lo msinga waseRashiya wehla ukusuka eBucha kwaye sabona ukufa kunye nentshabalalo eshiywe emva kwayo, kwaye sabona ukuba kwakukhangeleka njani, kubandakanywa nabantu ababuleweyo - kwaye eneneni, izandla zabo ziboshwe - babulawa. izandla zabo zibotshelelwe ngasemva – uxhatshazo olwenziwa kwabasetyhini, kubantwana, luyoyikeka kakhulu. Kwaye kufuneka kube nokuphendula kuyo.
UMBUZO: Ngaba uyibonile ividiyo eyanikelwa nguMongameli uZelenskyy kwiZizwe eziManyeneyo, okanye eminye imifanekiso evela eBucha? Njengoko uyichaza, inkohlakalo, unabantwana abancinci. Ubaxelela ntoni abantwana bakho? Ubuya kubaxelela ntoni?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe, ngombulelo, bancinci kakhulu ukuba bangayibona loo nto, bakwazi ukuyetyisa kwaye baqonde.
UMBUZO: Kodwa ngenye imini, baya - baya-
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Kodwa ngenye imini baya kuyenza. Kwaye kufuneka ndikuxelele, Andrea, ndiyacinga - kwaye ndiyakrokrela uninzi lwethu lunempendulo efanayo, ngakumbi abo banabantwana okanye abantwana abancinci - uzibeka ezihlangwini zikayise, zikamama, zikatatomkhulu, umakhulu ophakathi koku, obandezelekileyo, obomi babantwana babo busesichengeni okanye busesichengeni, okanye abalahlekileyo. Kwaye kuyakubetha - ndathi ngenye imini, ukubona le mifanekiso evela eBucha yayifana ne-punch to the gut. Ukhupha umoya kuwe. Unokwazi into ngobukrelekrele, kodwa ke xa ubona le mifanekiso kwaye uyiguqulela ebomini bakho, xa uzibuza, "Kuthekani ukuba le nto ibisenzeka kwidolophu yam, kubantwana bam? Kusapho lwam?” Ndicinga ukuba iqinisa kuphela ukuzimisela kwethu ukwenza konke okusemandleni ethu ukuxhasa abantu base-Ukrainian, ukubeka uxinzelelo eRashiya, ukuzisa oku ekupheleni ngokukhawuleza.
UMBUZO: Unozakuzaku wakho weZizwe Ezimanyeneyo, uLinda Thomas-Greenfield, wazichaza ezi zenzo zenkohlakalo waza wazithelekisa ngokongezelela nokuBulawa Kwabantu Ngenkohlakalo. Uthethe malunga noko ibhunga laseMariupol lalichazile, abantu ngenkani - amashumi amawaka - bathatyathwe kumakhaya abo, basiwa eRashiya baza bafakwa kwiinkampu. Ngaba asiyiyo leyo kanye ingcaciso yokubulawa kwabantu?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe, kufuneka sifumane lonke ulwazi, bonke ubungqina. Kufuneka, njengoko benditshilo, sibhale yonke into eyenzekileyo, siyiqonde ngokupheleleyo into eyenzekileyo. Sisigqebelo esinomdla ngandlel’ ithile. Le ngandlel' ithile yeyona mfazwe ibhalwe ngexesha lokwenyani esiye sadibana nayo ngenxa yetekhnoloji, ngenxa yeefowuni ezihlakaniphile, ngenxa yenkalipho engakholelekiyo yeentatheli ezasala eUkraine. Kodwa nangona kunjalo, izinto esingaziboniyo ngexesha lokwenyani, kuqukwa neBucha – kwaye kuphela kuxa lo msinga usiya uye ubone eyona nto yenzekileyo.
Ke ndicinga ukuba sizakufunda okuninzi kwiintsuku nakwiiveki ezizayo. Ndiyoyika ukuba le nto siza kuyifunda iyoyikeka ngakumbi.
UMBUZO: Ngaba ikho into esiyaziyo malunga nokwenzeka kwezi nkampu zaseRashiya nabantu baseUkrainian, kwaye ngaba sinalo nalo ithemba lokuzibuyisela?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Asinalo ulwazi lulungileyo kuloo nto, kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo senza konke esinako. Amanye amazwe enza konke anako ukuqinisekisa ukuba nabani na ovalelweyo uyakhululwa.
UMBUZO: I-US ithembise ukuthatha i-100,000 yezi zigidi zababaleki. IYurophu ivule iingcango zabo, ibabeke kumakhaya abo.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Bane.
UMBUZO: I-NBC inike ingxelo malunga nabasetyhini ababini ubuncinci, abafazi ababini baseUkraine kumda osemazantsi, abathi bathatyathwa kwaye kangangeeveki ezimbini bafakwa ngasemva kocingo oluhlabayo kwaye ngamanye amaxesha babanjwa kwinkampu ye-ICE. Singayenza njani loo nto xa sithelekisa nendlela iYurophu ebamkela ngayo?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe, andizazi ezo ngxelo. Yinto ngokuqinisekileyo endiya kujonga kuyo. Kodwa nantsi into eyenzekayo. Okokuqala, abantu baseYurophu baye baba yinto engaqhelekanga kwisisa sabo, ekuvuleni iintliziyo zabo, ukuvula iingalo zabo, ukuvula amakhaya abo kubantu abaninzi. Abahlobo bethu ePoland, okokuqala, baye baba nabantu abangaphezu kwezigidi ezi-2 beza ePoland. Uninzi lweembacu - uninzi lwazo, enyanisweni - zifuna ukuhlala kufutshane nekhaya kuba le nto uyibonayo, u-Andrea - kwaye ndiyazi ukuba ukubonele oku - phantse wonke umntu ngumfazi kunye nabantwana. Uninzi lwamadoda aphakathi kweminyaka eli-18 nengama-60 aye asala eUkraine ukuze alwe. Bathanda ukuhlala besondele. Bafuna ukubuyela emva, bafuna ukuphinda badityaniswe nabayeni babo, nabazalwana babo, noonyana babo. Kwaye xa sele beseYurophu, banenkululeko enkulu yokuhamba kunye nokukwazi ukuhlangana namanye amalungu osapho apho.
Emva kokuba eyithethile loo nto, uMongameli uBiden wayibeka yacaca into yokuba siza kwamkela abantu abangama-100,000 baseUkraine. Si--
UMBUZO: Ngaba kukho ixesha elibekiweyo?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ngoko ke ixesha lihamba. Into esiyenzayo ngoku ijonge ukuba zeziphi iindlela ezisemthethweni esinokuthi sizenze ngenxa yokuba kukho inkqubo yembacu eqhelekileyo, kodwa oko, ngenkcazo, kuthatha ixesha elide. Kuthatha iminyaka embalwa -
UMBUZO: Umbuzo okhawulezayo phambi kokuba silahlekelwe lixesha: izohlwayo.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ewe.
UMBUZO: Izohlwayo ezitsha, ngoku iYurophu ibeka izohlwayo ezintsha. I-China kunye ne-Indiya ziqhubeka nokuthenga amafutha eRashiya kwaye ziphembelela le mfazwe, zinceda ukuxhasa ngemali imfazwe kaPutin. Kutheni singavumeli iTshayina neIndiya?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ngoko kwimeko yokuqala, uAndrea, ezi zohlwayo zinefuthe elimangalisayo.
UMBUZO: Kodwa kukho izikhewu ezinkulu, kwaye iYurophu isathenga igesi yendalo kwaye iseza kuthenga omnye unyaka.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Kukho izikroba ezithi, iqhekeza ngeqhekeza, nganye nganye, sizama ukuyivala. Ngamanye amaxesha oko kuthatha ixesha. Kodwa makhe sijonge into esele yenzekile. Izohlwayo ngokongezelelekileyo zibeke uqoqosho lwaseRussia ekudodobaleni okukhulu. Kwaye into esiyibonayo kukudodobala koqoqosho lwaseRussia malunga neepesenti ezili-15. Iyamangalisa loo nto. Sibone enye into. Siye sabona imfuduko evela eRashiya phantse kuzo zonke iinkampani ezinkulu ehlabathini. Kwaye uPutin, kwisithuba seeveki, uye wayivala iRussia emhlabeni. Konke ukuvulwa, onke amathuba enzeke kule minyaka ingama-30 idlulileyo alisekho. Kwaye amaRashiya aya kuziva ukuba, ndiyoyika, kubomi babo bemihla ngemihla. Abayi kukwazi ukuthenga izinto abaqhele ukuzithenga, kwaye abayi kukwazi ukuthenga oko bangathanda ukuzithenga.
Kwaye ngaphaya koko, ulawulo lokuthumela ngaphandle esilubekayo, ukukhanyela iRashiya iteknoloji efunekayo ukuze iphucule amashishini abalulekileyo afana nokhuselo, njengokukhutshwa kwamandla - ekuhambeni kwexesha, ezo ziya kuba nempembelelo enkulu ngakumbi.
Ke sele sibona ifuthe elimangalisayo koku. Kwaye ewe, kukho iindawo apho amazwe ahlukeneyo enza izinto ezahlukeneyo. Sisebenza yonke imihla ukuvala oko.
UMBUZO: Umbuzo okhawulezayo kwi-Iran ngaphambi kokuba ndikuyeke uhambe. Uthetha ngeIran apha eBrussels. Ngaba i-Iran i-Revolutionary Guard - eye yahlasela abantu baseMelika kunye namahlakani ethu - ngumbutho wabanqolobi?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Ngoko, banjalo. Kwaye-
UMBUZO: Ngaba baya kuqhubeka bekho?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Andizukungena kwiinkcukacha zokuba sikuphi kwiingxoxo. Ndingatsho nje ukuba andinathemba ngokugqithisileyo ngethemba lokufumana isivumelwano sokuqukunjelwa, ngaphandle kwayo yonke imizamo esiye sayenza kuyo kwaye nangona ndiyakholelwa ukuba siya kuba - ukhuseleko lwethu lunokuba ngcono. Asikho apho. Kuya kufuneka sibone ukuba singavala —
UMBUZO: Ngaba ixesha liphelile?
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Kwaye ixesha liba lifutshane kakhulu. Kodwa le yinto esiza kuthetha ngayo namaqabane ethu aseYurophu ngale njikalanga kwaye emva kosuku olulandelayo. Besisebenza ngokusondelelene kakhulu nabaseYurophu, kunye neManyano yaseYurophu, kunye neFransi, neJamani, kunye ne-UK.
Ngoko siza kubona ukuba sifika phi. Ndiqhubeka ndikholelwa ukuba kuya kuba luncedo kwilizwe lethu ukuba sinokubuyela ekuthobeleni isivumelwano, ukuba i-Iran iya kwenza okufanayo. Asikho apho.
UMBUZO: Enkosi kakhulu, Mnu. Enkosi ngomonde wakho.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Enkosi, Andrea.
UMBUZO: Ndiyavuya ukubona.
UNOBHALA BLINKEN: Nawe ngokunjalo. Enkosi.
INTO ONOKUYITHATHA KWELI NQAKU:
- But to the chairman's point, and the President said this as well, as much as we want to see this come to an end as soon as possible to stop the death and destruction that's being wrought by Russia in Ukraine, there is also a very likely scenario by which this goes on for some time.
- So in terms of what they need to act quickly and act effectively, to deal with the planes that are firing at them from the skies, the tanks that are trying to destroy their cities from the ground, they have the tools that they need, they're going to keep getting them, and we're going to keep sustaining that.
- Andrea, we want to see this come to an end as quickly as possible, and that's exactly why we're making sure that we're doing everything we can to support Ukraine and to give them the assistance that they need to put pressure and to increase pressure on Russia, even as we're strengthening our – the defenses of our NATO Alliance.
