Phila isivumelwano, UNWTO isigqeba sithi

eTN: Unjani, Geoffrey? Injani iCopenhagen?
UGeoffrey Lipman: Ndicinga ukuba ingcono kunokuba abantu bathetha, ukuba uyayazi into endiyithethayo.

eTN: Kyoto ukuya eDavos ukuya eBali, ngoku eCopenhagen. Kuthekani ngengxelo yenkqubela?
Geoffrey: Okokuqala oku akukho malunga nokhenketho; Ndihlala ndiyithetha lento. Oku malunga nayo yonke into. Ingxelo yenkqubela phambili ingaphezulu kweKyoto ukuya eBali ukuya ePoznan ukuya apha. Lo ngumfanekiso omkhulu kunye neenzame zehlabathi ezikhokelwa yi-UN, i-G20, i-G77, i-China - kufuneka senze into yokubuyisela i-Kyoto xa iphelile ngo-2012, kwaye ngumba wehlabathi jikelele. Kwaye umcimbi ujikeleze mhlawumbi izinto ezi-3 okanye ezi-4. Enye, isayensi ithi kufuneka sigcine ubushushu bomhlaba buzinzile, okuthetha ukuba ukufudumala kwehlabathi kufuneka kunyuke kwiminyaka eyi-10 ezayo, ngaphezulu okanye ngaphantsi, kwaye kufuneka kuzinze kungabi ngaphezu kwe-2 degrees ephezulu kunokuba kunjalo namhlanje. 2050.

eTN: Ngawaphi amanyathelo acetywayo ukuze kuphunyezwe oku?
UGeoffrey: Ukuba ndiyakwazi, ndiyaxolisa, ukukuthatha endaweni yayo, yiyo yonke le nto isayensi enkulu ephikisana ngayo ngoku. IPPC (Iphaneli yoRhulumente kuTshintsho lweMozulu), ikhonkco letelegrams - yonke le nto ijikeleze - ngaba silungile ukuba siye kwelo nani lehlabathi? Kwaye yonke into elapha, kubandakanywa ukuba i-IPPC iphinda yintoni, ngumfanekiso lowo; sibambelele kuyo. Uninzi lwezi zinto zenzekayo, zicacile, kodwa eyona nto iphambili kukuba, kukho inkolelo ebanzi yokuba kukho impembelelo eyenziwe ngumntu, kwaye ukuba asizami ukujongana nayo, iindleko ziyehla. umgca uzakuba phezulu ngokumangalisayo, kwaye singaliphosa inqaku lencam. Nguwo lowo umfanekiso omkhulu – kutheni belapha.

eTN: Uthini umbono wakho ngeCopenhagen ukuza kuthi ga ngoku?
UGeoffrey: Ndiza kukunika amanqaku ama-2 ngaphezulu, kwaye ke ndiza kuphendula loo nto. Umcimbi omkhulu wesibini ngowokuba ufikelela njani kuloo nto - kulaa 2 degrees? Kwaye kulapho onke la manani eza khona-ukuba onke amazwe kufuneka angene eKyoto. Impumelelo iseKyoto, kuba iKyoto yantlandlolo yayijongene kuphela namazwe aphuhlileyo. Kwaye nangona kunjalo, ayinguye wonke umntu owayivumayo, kwaye abaninzi abalufikelelanga usukelo ababelubekele eKyoto. Andifuni nje ukunikruqula ngawo onke la manani – ndizama ukuninika umfanekiso omkhulu. Kwaye into ebesinayo sisicwangciso somdlalo esidibene eBali, ukuba uyakhumbula. Kwaye kuye kwakho iintlanganiso ezili-11 ukusukela ngelo xesha lamaqela ukuzama ukubethelela uhlobo lwesakhelo somlandeli. Iintlanganiso ezilishumi elinanye kwiminyaka emi-2 sisixa esikhulu seengxoxo zamazwe ngamazwe. Kwaye ngaphandle kweentlobo ezimbalwa, oku akutsho, kwaye ukhenketho lubalulekile ngenxa... Ekuphela kwento ethe ngqo kukuba baye bashiya ngaphandle kwinqwelomoya kunye nothutho lwaselwandle, kwaye yonke into ibonisa ukuba nakwesiphi na isivumelwano sexesha elizayo. , baya kungeniswa kuwo. Ngoko ke liqhekeza elibalulekileyo, kuba elithutha amacandelo abalulekileyo okhenketho. Kodwa ubukhulu becala, akukho mntu uhleli kufutshane apha othi, owu, kuthekani ngeempawu zokhenketho? Ngoko ke ngumfanekiso omkhulu. Ngoku umbuzo ngulo, siphi kwiingxoxo? Ndicinga ukuba inqaku elinye endifuna ukulithetha kukuba akukhathaliseki ukuba zeziphi iingxoxo zamazwe ngamazwe ukuba kukho iingxoxo, xa uphakathi kwazo, abantu bayazibeka kwindawo yabo. Akukho mntu ukuxelelayo umdlalo wokugqibela phakathi kweengxoxo. Bagcina umdlalo wokugqibela kude kube sekupheleni, akumangalisi.

eTN: Ucinga ukuba ingqungquthela ngokwayo yenziwe ngokufanelekileyo?
UGeoffrey: Mna ngokwam ndiyakholelwa ukuba igqityezelwe ngokufanelekileyo, kuba enye into esemfanekisweni omkhulu – iqhekeza lesithathu lamanani – yile ithi, yimalini eza kunikwa amazwe ahlwempuzekileyo ukuze akwazi ukuziqhelanisa neenkqubo zawo. ? Ke ndingatsho, okwangoku, kukho le miba mi-3 okanye emi-4 emikhulu, kwaye icwangciswe ngokuchanekileyo, kwaye ndiyakholelwa ukuba baya kufikelela kwisivumelwano, hayi zonke iinkcukacha, kodwa baya kufikelela kwinto abayibiza ngokuba yipolitiki. isivumelwano kwisicwangciso-nkqubo somgaqo-nkqubo wesicwangciso soku, kwaye baya kuzinika ixeshana elingephi ukuba bafikelele kwiinkcukacha zamanani. Le yinkolelo yam yobuqu, kwaye le yobuqu, kuya kubakho okwaneleyo embizeni xa iMelika ifika; kuya kubakho ngokwaneleyo ukufakwa embizeni ukuze kulungiselelwe amazwe ahlwempuzekileyo. Amazwe ahluphekayo aya kuhambisana noko kucetywayo, kuba kugxile kakhulu kwiimfuno zabo. Olu luvo lwe-US$10 yeebhiliyoni zeedola ngonyaka ukulungiselela iminyaka emi-3 ezayo – yi-US$30 yeebhiliyoni – iyaqala ukuba yimali enzima.

eTN: Izakuvela phi le mali?
UGeoffrey: Iza kuvela kumazwe ngamanye, kwaye iya kuvela kwiBhanki yehlabathi nakumaziko, kwaye mhlawumbi iya kuhambelana necandelo labucala.

eTN: Kodwa kuthekani ngabangcolisi abakhulu, amazwe amakhulu angoyena nobangela wolu tshintsho lwemozulu? Ngaba ikho into abayenzayo kwingxowa-mali?
UGeoffrey: Ngumcimbi wezopolitiko lowo, Nelson. Andinamdla ngalento njengawe. Ndizimisele kwaye andinamdla. Abona bangcolisi abakhulu ngabo kuza kufuneka bahlawule eyona mali ibalulekileyo, ukuba ngamazwe aphuhlileyo. Siyazi kwakhona ukuba eUnited States, kukho ukuchasana kweCongress kwezinye zezi, kwaye le yinyani yezopolitiko. Siyazi kwakhona ukuba i-China iba ngomnye wabaxhasi abakhulu begesi ye-greenhouse, kwaye i-China inesithuba esahluke kakhulu ukuba ikulungele ukunciphisa amandla ekhabhoni kwimveliso yayo, yimveliso ye-GDP, kodwa ayilungiselelanga ukuhlenga ukunciphisa amanqanaba. ikhabhoni kweli nqanaba lophuhliso lwayo. Ngoku le yimiba yonke endinokuthi, ndiyakholelwa ukuba amaqela aya kufumana ukuqonda kwisakhelo, kodwa kungekhona amanani acacisiweyo.

eTN: Bambi babone ngathi le ngqungquthela ayiphumelelanga, kuba uninzi lwabangcolisi abaphambili bavakalise ukuba abazukuthatha nxaxheba okanye abayithatheli ngqalelo ingqungquthela. Ngaba oku kuye kwaba njalo?
UGeoffrey: Hayi, andiyikholelwa loo nto. Andiboni bungqina. Ndibona uthethathethwano olunzima kakhulu, ndibona inkqubo yenkxaso eqaqambileyo yi-UNFCCC (i-United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change), kwaye ndibona inkqubo ye-UN. Sibe neseshoni ngobu busuku [nonobhala-jikelele we-UN] u-Ban Ki-moon kunye neentloko zee-arhente ezingaqhelekanga ezingama-20 - inkxaso epheleleyo kunye nomanyano emva kwale nkqubo. Ndicinga ukuba kukho amazwe anoxanduva kakhulu phaya, kodwa kufuneka bajongane nezinto zabo zasekhaya, kwaye andikwazi ukuzulisa intonga kwaye ndiyithethe le nto ukuba baya kuyenza njani, kodwa inkolelo yam yobuqu kukuba baya kufikelela. ukuqonda, okuya kwenza le ngqungquthela intlanganiso ebaluleke kakhulu kwindlela yokuthatha indawo yaseKyoto ngo-2012 kunye nezinye iziqwenga ezixhasayo.

eTN: Uyivezile lento. Uninzi lwamazwe angaphuhlanga kangako, kwanelizwekazi laseAfrika, afuna imbuyekezo ngenxa yeempembelelo zokutshintsha kwemozulu. Ngaba oku kukusinda nje, kwaye ucinga ukuba kunokwenzeka ngokwenene?
UGeoffrey: Mna, mna, ndikholelwa ukuba umba "wembuyekezo" ngumcimbi onzima kakhulu ukuwulungisa. Kukho iimbono ezahlukeneyo malunga nokuba yenzelwe ntoni imbuyekezo; kukho iimbono ezahlukeneyo malunga nendlela ekufuneka yabiwe ngayo kwaye ngubani ofanele ukuyifumana. Kodwa enye into ekubonakala kukho isivumelwano kuyo kukuba kufuneka kudalwe ingxowa-mali, eza kunceda amazwe ahlwempuzekileyo ukuba aziqhelanise. Kwaye kukho imvakalelo jikelele, kukho ubuncinci - yi-US $ 10 yezigidigidi ngonyaka iminyaka emi-3. Ndicinga ukuba sisiqalo esihle eso.

eTN: IAfrika inomzobo othile. Andazi ukuba yintoni ngoku, kodwa bebengagungqi ekuziseni loo nto encotsheni, kwaye andiqinisekanga ukuba baphumelele kangakanani na.
UGeoffrey: Balungile ukuyizisa, kodwa luthethathethwano, kwaye ekupheleni kosuku, ndicinga ukuba isiphelo siya kuba sisisombululo ekuvunyelwene ngaso phakathi kwamagunya amakhulu, amazwe amakhulu, i-G20s kunye ne-G77 kufuneka etafileni kwaye uyavuma, iChina kunye neIndiya kufuneka zibe setafileni kwaye zivumelane, kodwa ndiyakholelwa ukuba le nkqubo isebenza kakuhle okwangoku.

eTN: Kulungile. Ndiye ndafunda UNWTO's “Ukusuka eDavos ukuya eCopenhagen naNgaphaya: Ukuqhubela phambili iMpendulo yoKhenketho kuTshintsho lweMozulu” iphepha elingasemva. Iphelele, kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ifundeka ixesha elide. Ngaba ungabonisa imiba ephambili ofuna ukuba ushishino lohambo nokhenketho luyazi?
UGeoffrey: Ndicinga ukuba into yokuqala ukwazi ukuba i-WTO ineenyawo zayo etafileni, ilandele ngokucophelela olu phuhliso olukhulu lwezopolitiko kwaye yenza inqaku lokuqinisekisa kwinkqubo ye-UN ukuba ukhenketho, kukho ukuqaphela okubalulekileyo. indima yokhenketho – yeyona nto iphambili. Inqaku lesibini, sibambe inkqubo ebandakanya kakhulu eDavos. Wonke umntu wayelapho, kubandakanywa noluntu, amajelo eendaba, kunye neeseti zeengcebiso zaphuma eDavos, kwaye ndiyacinga UNWTO ifuna ukukhumbuza abantu ukuba kufuneka banxulumanise ezi ngcebiso noko kuphuma e-Copenhagen, kunye, ukuba uyathanda, kuba ayizizo zonke izinto eziza kubhaliswa apha. Kwaye UNWTO utsho, ingakumbi unobhala jikelele uTaleb Rifai uthi ngoku, iinxalenye zomsebenzi wethu kunye nesigunyaziso sethu kukuqinisekisa ukuba sikhusela umdla woshishino kwiinkqubo ze-UN thina ... kuyo yonke le nto. Kwaye isiganeko ecaleni ukuba UNWTO yenza nge WTTC, yenzelwe ukubonisa ukuba le mibutho neminye izimisele ukusebenzisana kulo mmandla, kwaneminye imimandla.

eTN: Iziko labucala, njengeWorld Travel & Tourism Council (WTTC), badlale njani kule ngqungquthela yokutshintsha kwemozulu yaseCopenhagen?
Geoffrey: Babeke iinyawo zabo etafileni; baphaya njengoluntu ngendlela ethile, kodwa ukunxulumana ne-WTO kwenza uhlobo lwenyathelo lokuqala loluntu-labucala, kwaye okona kubaluleke kakhulu, amalungu WTTC ziya kuba, kwaye ziphakathi kwabafundi kulo mmandla wonke. IiMarriots ezinkulu zithathe, njengoko ukhumbula kwi WTTC kwintlanganiso, banaloo mitha inkulu yamahlathi abawaxhasayo. Abanye ... benza izinto ezintle xa kufikwa ekuncitshisweni kwekhabhoni kunye nokutshintsha kwemozulu. Kwaye baninzi abantu phaya, ngoko WTTC amalungu anenxaxheba. WTTC yimbonakaliso yamalungu ayo.

eTN: Kukho uxwebhu oluvela kugreenearth.travel olubizwa “Live the Deal.” Ngaba ikho into oyaziyo ngayo?
UGeoffrey: Ewe. Linyathelo lam elo. Leyo linyathelo lam lobuqu lokudibanisa nenani labanye abantu, ndifakwe ngaphakathi UNWTO ngenkxaso kaRifai, kodwa inyathelo eliza kuba – ndiyibiza ngokuba “yiMANGO.” Ngaba uyazi ukuba yintoni imango? Hayi isiqhamo. Ukuba uya kwi-Wikipedia, bathi kukho into ebizwa ngokuba yi-Market Adjustment Non-Government Organisation.

eTN: Ngubani oze nalo mfutshane?
UGeoffrey: Nantso into endiyimiseleyo ngephulo elibizwa “Live the Deal,” kwaye umbono weli phulo uthi kwicandelo lezokhenketho, kuya kubakho iziphumo eziphuma eCopenhagen, okanye eCopenhagen nakweyiphi na iintlanganiso. landela, kwaye sifuna ishishini lokuhamba - iinkampani kunye noluntu - ukuba babhalisele ukufezekisa ukuncipha okufanayo njengoko oorhulumente babo bebhalisa kwisivumelwano. Ke, ukuba i-United States isayinela ukuncitshiswa kokuthabatha, okanye masithi ilizwe laseYurophu-siyazi ukuba izokwenzeka loo nto-isayine ukuya kuthi ga kwi-20 ngo-2020, sifuna iinkampani zokhenketho zaseYurophu zibhalisele ukuya kuthi ga ngoku. bajongane nobuncinci, kwaye siya kubonelela ngezixhobo abanokuthi ngazo banike ingxelo kwaye baphonononge iinyawo zabo kwaye banokujonga ukuba yintoni na umkhondo wabo kunye nendlela otshintsha ngayo unyaka nonyaka. Kwaye eyona nto iphambili kukuze bakwazi ukugcina ukuzibophelela kwabo ekwenzeni okona kulungileyo njengoko sicebisa ukukwenza.

eTN: Ngowuphi umbutho oza kujonga le nto?
UGeoffrey: Ngumbutho omtsha endiwudalileyo, kwaye siza kusebenzisa amaqela esithathu, amaqela esithathu ahloniphekileyo, ngaphakathi nangaphandle kwecandelo lokuhamba kuvavanyo lwekhabhoni kunye nommandla wokulinganisa ikhabhoni, kwaye siza kuvelisa kunye nabo indlela, kwaye loo ndlela iza kuthengiswa ngexabiso eliphantsi kakhulu kwicandelo lezokhenketho.

eTN: Chaza le ndlela uthetha ngayo.
UGeoffrey: Thatha umzekelo, eTurboNews ikwishishini lokuhamba. Uhamba kakhulu - wena, Thomas, bonke abanye abantu kwiqela lakho. Unomkhondo wekhabhoni. Siza kukunika isixhobo se-intanethi esikuvumela ukuba wenze umlinganiselo wekhabhoni yakho. Abanye abantu abaninzi banezixhobo ezifanayo, kodwa eso siza kukunika sona ekuqaleni kwalo nyaka uzayo, kuba sifuna ixesha lokufumana ukuba yintoni kanye kanye into eyenziwa ngurhulumente kwaye sifumane iindlela zokulandelela ilizwe, ndithetha ukuba, hayi ukufumana iindlela, kodwa kufuneka uyichole ilizwe nelizwe, kwaye oko kuya kuba yinxalenye yedeshibhodi, into oyifumanayo, xa ubhalisa ukuba kunye nesivumelwano. Kwaye sineenkampani zeengcali ezikhoyo ukuze zinike iingcebiso kunye nolo hlobo lwento njengoko abantu beqhubela phambili kule nto.

eTN: Sele iqalisiwe?
UGeoffrey: Lo mbono uqaliswe ngoMvulo, apha eCopenhagen. Kwaye kuya kwenzeka ntoni ukuba phakathi kwangoku kunye nokuqala konyaka, siya kuba nexesha lokujonga amaxwebhu afumaneka esidlangalaleni malunga nokuba oorhulumente bazibophelele ngantoni, kwaye siya kuqala ukukhupha isiseko sedatha yezibophelelo zikarhulumente. Kwaye oko kuya kuvumela, uyazi, ukuba ufumana ifomu yakho kwi-intanethi, iya kuboniswa ngokusondeleyo, oko urhulumente wakho akuvumileyo okanye ukwinkqubo yokuvuma, ngoko uya kukwazi ukwenza itshekhi rhoqo, kwaye emva koko. siya kuvelisa iingxelo zonyaka, iintshatsheli zeprofayili, yonke loo nto.

eTN: Uceba ukugqobhoza njani oorhulumente, kuba ngokwesiqhelo iba ngabokugqibela ukungena?
UGeoffrey: Okokuqala, ndinenkxaso epheleleyo ye-WTO. Ukuba uya kwiwebhusayithi yabo, baqhuba ividiyo.

eTN: WTO njengakwiWorld Tourism Organisation okanye kwiWorld Trade Organisation?
UGeoffrey: Umbutho woKhenketho weHlabathi – UNWTO. Ungabona kwakhona ividiyo encinci ecocekileyo eyenziweyo esiyenzileyo. Khumbula le yenziwa yimvumi yeplatinum disk star uAlston Koch? Senze konke oku ngokwam, kwaye ukuba uthi, kulungile, ivela phi loo nto, ngaphandle kokuba andifuni ukuba umfazi wam ayazi, ephuma epokothweni yam. Ndiyayisungula le nto, kuba ndikholelwa ngokwenene ukuba lixesha lokuba ndiyenze.

eTN: Ifunyenwe njani; bekunjalo, yintoni, iintsuku ezi-3?
UGeoffrey: Yenyuka kwaye ngaphakathi kwemizuzu ye-17, yayiyeyona nto ikhangelwe kakhulu yokuhamba. Ukuba ujonga kwi-Pacific Asia Travel Association (PATA)'s ushicilelo lweendaba, awunakufumana ulwando olungcono kunoko sikufumene kwi-PATA. I-WTO inoshicilelo lweendaba ngale nto, kwaye awukwazanga ukufumana uqinisekiso olungcono kunoRifai esithi olu luhlobo lwesixhobo esifuna ukuxhasa.

eTN: Nawe ke, uyahlukana nawe UNWTO Inkqubo?
UGeoffrey: Ekupheleni konyaka, ndiza kuba ngumcebisi kwakhona njengoko ndandiseFrangialli ngaphambi kokufudukela eMadrid, kwaye ndiya kuba ngumcebisi kuRifai. Kwaye ndiza kusebenza kuqoqosho, kunye nenyathelo le-T20, kunye nezo zinto bendizixakekise kakhulu. Ndiza kuyenza isiqingatha sexesha, kwaye ndiya kuyenza ukusuka eBrussels kuneMadrid.

eTN: Kuzakwenzeka ntoni ngesikhundla sakho? Ingaba kuza kubakho usekela nobhala?
UGeoffrey: Hayi. Uyazi, into abayibhengeze eKazakhstan yayi-akukho sekela kwaye akukho nobhala-jikelele oncedisayo, kwaye baya kuvota kubalawuli abalawulayo be-3. Kwaye abalawuli abalawulayo baya kuthatha ingxelo ngokuthe ngqo UNWTO unobhala-jikelele uTaleb Rifai.

eTN: Geoffrey, ikhona enye into ofuna ukuyongeza kolu dliwanondlebe?
UGeoffrey: Ndifuna ngokwenene ukuthi uNelson, kwaye okokuqala, ndiyabulela kakhulu, kwaye ndinyanisekile malunga noku, inkxaso ekhawulezileyo evela kuThomas nakwi-eTurbo. Into endiyibonayo apha yinto enokuba yinto exabiseke kakhulu kwishishini lilonke-indawo yokuhlala, ezothutho, kuba iza kunika indlela elula kakhulu yokulinganisa i-carbon footprint kunye nendlela elula kakhulu, imizobo entle kakhulu, izinto ze-intanethi - sisebenzisana nenkampani ukwenza oku.

Ndithembele kuwe, Nelson. Enye into endifuna ukuyithetha kuwe, nokuba le ikwirekhodi okanye ayikho kwirekhodi, ikulabhulo endithe ndalukhupha. Ndicinga ukuba lixesha, kukho abantu abaphikisanayo kule ndawo. Uyazi, uva izinto ezifana nokuba kuya kubakho unxibelelwano phakathi koku kunye nezinye iindlela. Oku kuya kuba lelona lisezantsi idinomineyitha eqhelekileyo, kwaye ayisayi kuphazamisana nento abanye abantu abakhoyo ababonelela ngeenkonzo; ayizozama ukubaphazamisa. Kodwa asizukwenza kwaloo nto. Asizi kunceda nabani na ngokuthe ngqo ukwenza olo tshintsho. Ngokungathanga ngqo, inxalenye enkulu yento esiyenzayo ukuya phambili iya kuba kukugcina ingqwalasela kwiteknoloji entsha kunye nezinye izinto ezihlaziyiweyo kunye nobuchule obunokunceda abantu bafumane i-carbon footprint phantsi. Kwaye siya kuyihlaziya iwebhusayithi yethu ukuze abantu babone kwaye bafumane olo lwazi.

eTN: Ndicinga ukuba licebo elilungileyo, kwaye ndikunqwenelela amathamsanqa kweli phulo.

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